tv Book Party for Privacy in the Age of Big Data CSPAN August 20, 2014 10:15pm-10:40pm EDT
the information economy, rich people getting richer, educated people getting richer on the various elements that would feed into the zero marginal cost society and then the people who work in the delis and the liquor stores and at the hotels are unable to rent a decent place anywhere near their work. police officers, firefighters and teachers as well. so at that point there are certain things that cannot be zero marginal cost. how do we deal with that? >> guest: we always assume there's no way to move an economy unless there's a profit incentive. without a profit incentive how can you move the economy therefore the collaborative economy doesn't make sense. how would people produce and share things for free? wake-up call. billions of people are doing it today. it's called cooperatives. we don't tend to recognize this in the u.s. but literally billions of people are involved
in food cooperatives, electricity cooperatives banking cooperatives housing cooperatives, all sorts of cooperatives that are not based on a profit motive. they pool their n. shared resources on the commons. this cooperative is a comment and there's no direct profit. for example in the united states when you go to the grocery store a lot of the food you get is coming from agricultural cooperatives and invest part of u.s. electricity comes from rural electricity cooperatives. they provide 70% of electricity. it's not a profit-based system. it's wildly successful. in new york we have housing cooperatives. in europe and asia and around the world more people bank in banking co-ops and commercial banks and their big players. they're not small players. again we are so blinded to the idea there's only the capitalist market that we don't see around us is other reality cooperatives and nonprofit organizations that are common to let me say one last thing. economists will say the social
commons is a parasite. it relies on government grants and entitlements and private philanthropy in order to sustain itself. wrong. a study was done at 40 countries by johns hopkins university civil society centered and what they found is over half the revenue not-for-profit organizations is fees for services rendered. only 3435% comes from government which is less than government gives the industry and only 12% as philanthropy. we have wit with the collaborat, and that's now going to move from the shadows to center stage because the internet of things will allow millions of people to bypass the capitalist market and become consumers and produce and share their own goods and services and eliminate the middleman and directly engage with each other and they will create institutions that are by far and away beyond the traditional capitalist profit-making institutions there are going to be two systems,
capitalist market in the collaborative commons. i suspect the collaborative commons will probably be the dominant economic engine in the capitalist market will still be a strong player but a niche partner. >> host: have cooperatives helped firefighters pay their rent in new york? >> guest: cooperatives have helped out. that's a good thing about cooperatives because they can fix, the cooperatives determine what they are going to be doing with their members. they can fix bills to some extent but i'm not saying the whole world is going to move toward a zero marginal cost society. i'm saying that large parts of the human race are starting to move some of the economic activity onto the internet of things onto the collaborative commons. if nothing else this is the best news in my lifetime. i never thought of my lifetime we would see the emergence of a new economic system, collaborative commons. so different from the traditional capitalist systems
we now have. how we develop it all the challenges involved as we move toward it are quite interesting and there are going to be difficult for sure but the fact that we actually have a new possibility, new economic journey ahead of us a new economic system to look forward to is quite encouraging. getting there is going to be a real test of our will. the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer and climate change is spoiling our planet is not a viable alternative so let's move this journey to a zero marginal cost society and move to collaborative commons and create a more just and sustainable society for our kids. >> host: jeremy rifkin author of "the zero marginal cost society" thank you very much for this conversation. >> guest: thank you.
now i'm booktv theresa payton and theodore claypoole talk about the positive and negatives of digital surveillance and discuss what individuals can do to protect their privacy and the privacy of their children. during a book party held at the capitol hill club in washington d.c.. >> are you guys ready? everybody has a glass of wine so you can settle in. perfect, excellent. good evening. i am melissa hathaway and it's my great honor to be here this evening to introduce the authors "privacy in the age of big dat data." who would have thought that when the internet began with his first transmission on october 29, 1969 and be moved forward here today in may of 2014 that each one of us would have at least three to five i.t. enabled devices on us moving toward 10 to 15 in the next few years. we are at the intersection of the internet of things, security
and privacy in the 21st century and these authors have identified what it means to be tracked from our home, through the internet, in our cars and as we move forward. i am so excited to introduce theresa payton and ted claypoole who are going to give us some of the background of the book, some of the case studies and to make us think twice about when one may click connect, search and connect to that internet. what does it mean for our security, our privacy and the age of the internet of things so to reset please. you. >> thank you. [applause] first of all thanks so much everybody for being here because you are either a friend of ted's or a friend of mine or a colleague or a business partner of some sorts of thank you for giving up time and a evening to be here. even though we made sure we advertise free food and free
booze. that having been said you are busy people. let me talk to a little bit about why ted and i wanted to do this book. it's interesting to remember a time before edward snowden which was june, a year ago. remember that time. ted and i were talking about doing our second book, the first but protecting your internet activity and are you on line? the truth is yes. that is for after the show. we go to the publisher and we say we have this great idea in the something we are very concerned about. we want to talk about privacy in the age of the data and its crickets on the other end of the phone at the publisher. the publisher is sweet and we love them. it's her second book with them and they are here with us tonight selling the book. they said i don't think consumers care about that at all. we are going to have a hard time selling this book. why do you think they're going to care about the book.
>> we said we would love to have the tube you think about this but what about something else? >> not this. here are the things we are concerned about site talks through a couple of things and they reluctantly agreed to let us write the book. so we are coming up on our first deadline where everything has to be done and turned in an and the first deadline the boston marathon bombing happens. if you remember there were a lot of crowdsourcing going on in the data to try to figure out who did what and how to apprehend the culprits. they pulled the book back to talk about how big data didn't stop something from happening but it sure helps with the case. we are now wrapping it out and then mr. snowden's revelations come out at of me go back to the publisher and we say we need to pull the book back again. they said don't you think this is a passing headline? do you really want to delay the
book for snowden? i said i think this is going to be big. trust us on this if we release a book and snowden is not in that people will not read it. long story short i was a little bit of the cycle on writing a book that the reason i'm so excited we got the chance to do the project is from a technical perspective i was at the beginning of creating the big data and analytics that the banks know about you. according to the vendor they are trying to make you feel good but according to them one of the largest first comprehensive on line data analytics platform and this was that barnett bank which is part of bank of america and one of the biggest implementations at that time. i was part of doing that and my focus was to help the bank make money and to make sure we can get a larger share of your wallet. and take care of you of course. that was number one. i left the best for last. it's all about the customer.
i have to tell you i did not think once about somebody hacking and stealing that data and knowing everything about you. that doesn't mean i didn't care about security at that point but it was on the mainframe. we had the client/server implementation and i just didn't have to think and worry that much because we had mainframe security. fast-forward, i'm thinking about the data being collected by us and a lot of times we get focused on the government and the government scratches the surface. it's business and they need to do it so they can make money so they can offer you valued products so they can get the next cure for disease, so they can patent the heart to fix that my daughter got a couple of years ago. we need big data and we need all this information but is woefully under protected. when i talked to ted about this book my focus was how do i write a guide for consumers and businesses with ted's brilliant legal mind to help me understand
navigating where the laws lead often where the laws help and how do i write a guide for you whether yo you are a business owner, business executive or a consumer that you can read, be informed, engaged and may be enraged and if you are not enraged at some point in the book i didn't do my job on the pieces. ted did his job. also you can do something about it because you read the headlines and people get paralysis. i wanted to take that paralysis away and i wanted you to feel like you had control. then there are couple of parts where you can't do anything about it except to talk to your elected officials. we also encourage that in the book as well. that is why i am so excited the project actually happened, that you were here and i hope you enjoyed reading the book. ted and i love to talk to people as they are reading the book and i will turn it over to ted for his remarks on the project. >> ultimately i think one of the things we said what we were doing this was we are going to
be positive. neither of us are luddites and none of us think we should get rid of technology. in fact part of every chapter was supposed to be here is why this technology is good, here's where it works for you and here's why it's important to you in here is why people set it up this way. in some cases they set up that way for reasons we may not necessarily like that we explore the good enough batted it. but then hopefully you became enraged in certain places where you say i understand this is good but it doesn't have to be this way. that is ultimately where we are right now is that there is a lot going on right now and more and more is happening is the internet of things becomes real. as you have not just a computer in your pocket, but a computer that is your jacket and those exist right now and we talk about them in the book. but more and more stationary
cameras around in the sensors everywhere and the thing you carry with you will be sending information out about you. so we as people need to make decisions about how much we care about that and how much we are willing to give out and how much we can ask our legislators to say we need to know more here or we need to have some restrictions there. there was a question of not necessarily have to do something but if you think about it and you were worried here are some steps you can take so that was where we were. and we are happy to take any questions and by the way she has allowed her mic and that is why i am standing behind here. >> the other thing too if you are in a hurry and you don't have time to read the book and you keep putting it off because you are doing other things you can flip through it and we actually have free tools, tips,
case studies that we have highlighted a sort of a callout text box. if you don't have time to read the book cover to cover you can flip through and find some of those tips and tools highlighted in the boxes. the stories are interesting. a lot of the stories we did actually interviewed the victims so we actually talked to victims and put the results of the interview with their permission in the book. we also interviewed mr. madeley who developed the showdown tool. the risks of the internet of things we now have refrigerators that talk to the internet to help you with your grocery ord order. for those of you who are german phobic you can flush your toilet using bluetooth from your phone. so this internet of things understands those chips that make it affordable for you to have it in your house and make it really simple to use our woefully unprotected.
it has data about you and your patterns. flashing patterns, food patterns, other patterns. then there's also the cameras as well. >> but yes it is a brave new world now and it's just going to get more and more extreme in that area. the one thing you said that i wanted to point out that our publisher stopped as a one point and said i'm not sure why you were using all these cases that have been in a lawsuit at one point or another. that actually was fairly easy because something that people have to know about us is that we are professional secret keepers. this is what we do for a living and so if anybody is looking to read what theresa is saying about dishing dirt at the white house, not going to happen.
and the same thing with me and my clients a number of whom are creating the internet of things end up in the banking space or others. we don't talk about that but one of the reasons we talk about law cases is because it's protected. there is a lot out there that eventually reach the point where someone has been upset enough to sue about it so there is a lot we cover in there because we can do that and nobody can say we are taking their information. >> you talk about lawsuits and stuff like that and it brings up an idea to me about a whole new area of law and how is that emerging? >> we feel like we need more lawyers? i am kidding. >> it's interesting because i've been doing this for a long time
and i have been doing this since before there were laws in this space so there were some responsibility but in a regular talk i give to businesses right now is whether your data obligations because everybody has them now trade 47 states have passed certain data loss. kentucky just past one this last month to come into the rest of the world. but it's interesting, you have those in california has done things such as almost having a right to erase your past while on social media if you were a teenager. so god forbid any of us would have said things we were embarrassed about when we were a teenager and/or posted them on line. that is where the california legislature is coming from. >> is a coming from the police? >> a little bit of both but there's a lot coming from the
state legislature. our good friends across the street here have been looking at this issue and have 20 or 30 acts in the statutes and the space up there looking at year after year after year but they have not passed them yet. we actually haven't had a broad law in protecting privacy since 1988. we have so had more specific industry specific laws but nothing broader than that and a few things have happened since then. >> just like a few like twitter was launched in the new iphone, facebook took on myspace. google search and google mail. all of that happened since we have enacted these laws so obviously the laws, unless we are incredible fortunetellers didn't really foresee how the internet was going to morph and change. >> it is changing. it's changing everybody's business because there are things you have to pay attention to and another thing we cover in
the book is that most of the rest of the civilized world looks at the u.s. as a banana republic when it comes to privacy, because a lot of plac places, canada, japan most and most of europe and others have an objective right to privacy. we don't have that at all. we deal on a sector specific method would it's very different and if you are doing business were living in some of the rest of the world of privacy laws are much much different. >> we learned that from the first book. we had a few people that weren't us-based read the first book and say not enough for me, for my country and this book so we actually spent quite a bit of time researching iran syria russia turkey israel, lot of different other countries, u.k. and canada and really trying to
understand their views on privacy. what's interesting is they do draw the line there's a little different than how we think about it. so for example in the u.k. they see privacy is a right as it relates to businesses collecting your data. but they have no problem snapping your picture everywhere you go in the u.k.. they are some of the most photographed citizens in the world so it's interesting to see that. if you are getting ready to live or your children are getting way are getting ready to look another country or do business in another country you'll definitely want to go to the book and look for some of the different differences between america from our point of view and those countries and their point of view on privacy. >> we thought it made it richer to explore what the whole world is doing and this and that in contrast and compare it to what we have. >> is a possible globally to wipe out all your social media or anything that has been on mine? >> is a possible?
probably not. for years the french, seriously the french have talked about a right to be forgotten and they passed into law at one point but have been unable to enact it. but if you go back to the first there are some things you can do to help clean up some of what you have on line and the social media companies will help you to a certain extent with that and other companies that are putting information out that you may or may not help with that. >> to reintroduce it. >> now, here's the most important part of and from a practical standpoint i don't remember all the numbers that was something like 60% of people don't ever go past the first search page and over 90% or 95% or 98% don't go past the third
search page. so if you can't get rid of it you can at least bury it. >> not that anyone here has anything to bury that your loved ones might. >> someone truly but evaded might find that kind of thing but the truth is most people wouldn't. >> including h.r. and academic review boards and things like that. >> future potential mothers-in-law. >> always then it's another thing when i talk to groups about this. i give a lot of social media ethics talks and one of my big slides is simply don't be stup stupid. you know there's a lot of thinking and think before you write because you are publishing. this is a publication. it's going out there and maybe you can pull it back and maybe not but you can't count on that.
just because you pull up that doesn't mean somebody else didn't say and once again across the street the library of congress is keeping all public tweets. >> that's it there is and a glitch and they get the private tweets too. >> which may well happen. >> do you think they are so dependent but not savvy about where it goes? they truly believe in passwords that only their friends see things. >> they do and they don't realize there's a data warehouse behind the scenes. guess on the front side on the web site that's all you see and when you delete its gone for you but it's still back. it's like people learned the hard way with snapchat. the thing expires after so many seconds. kind of, to you. i always say to people the only time to lead us forever is when your device crashes and you want to recover the data. that's the only time delete is forever but everything else, no
it's not forever. [inaudible] >> one of the nice things about worse and working with theresa on these books if she has a very deep and really thoughtful knowledge of the way children use the internet and how to be careful about that. one of the things she has taught me, and i now steal mercilessly. >> i can't wait to hear what it is. >> it's one of the point to a snake which is when a teenager thinks about privacy, their own privacy who do you think they want to be private from? you. and other people they don't think about of it all. it's just they want to be private with regard to their parents. and i don't care if anybody else in the world knows that in many cases. so there's a lot to think about